BUSINESSMAN OFFERS TO BUY CINEMA BUILDING FOR TEN PER CENT ABOVE MARKET RATE

A CRYSTAL PALACE businessman has offered to buy the former cinema building at 25 Church Road for ten per cent MORE than its current market value – but has been turned down.

The building is currently owned by KICC  (Kingsway International Christian Centre)  which is set to make a fresh application  to use the building as a church but with but with community use thrown in this time around.

The businessman – who has asked not to be named – said: “We did instruct a couple of estate agents to act on our behalf. “Unfortunately KICC didn’t want to engage into dialogue.

“And I personally went to their open door event and talked to one of KICC senior representatives where I verbally offered to pay 10pc above market rate for this glamorous building.

“Our aim is to bring the building to its former glory and screen science, arthouse, kids and blockbuster movies” he added.

(Note: The businessman, whose identity is known to News From Crystal Palace, is NOT a property developer).

FONTGATE: See story BAPTISMAL FONT UNCOVERED AT ‘OPEN DAY’ IN CINEMA BUILDING – Councillors anger at being ‘misled’ dated October 7th.

FONTGATE: WAVE OF OPPOSITION TO CHURCH PLANS – as a blogger named ‘Fang’ sinks his teeth into KICC 

MOVES BY the Pentecostal church which owns the former cinema building at 25 Church Road to make a SECOND attempt at turning the building into a church – but with community use thrown in this time around – have unleashed a torrent of criticism and objections.

Among a huge wave of critical posts on Virtual Norwood the latest – from Fang – says “It is clear that 25 Church Road is now unsuited to any of the ‘community’ uses the KICC is proposing.”

In a stinging attack on the blogsite he says: “I could list the instances of the KICC ignoring regulatory obligations, their duties as a charity, reneging on undertakings freely given to public servants and elected representatives but I’m not sure that there is sufficient bandwidth available.

Further criticisms have come on the Picture Palace Campaign’s Facebook page (see separate story).

“‘Fontgate’ is just a recent example of this pattern of behaviour. “They laughed and said ‘No’ when Sharon Baldwin, a Croydon council officer, asked them at a meeting some years ago if they had installed a baptismal font.

“They repeated these denials on numerous occasions to councillors and officers. “Apparently they even misled their own planning consultants! “What then are we to deduce about the KICC’s honesty following Saturdays discovery?

“Taking this into account, do you really believe that imposing conditions and legal agreements offers any sort of a solution?

“All the evidence suggests that the KICC doesn’t do conditions, agreements rules or regulations. “On top of this, any agreement would be policed by an under-resourced local authority planning department.

“I’m not certain that a planning inspector would come down in favour of a change of use for the building. “This is a building of significant  cultural and economic potential and importance, a registered community asset.

“Its loss to the community would have far reaching consequences.

“There is also the issue of how a heavily used KICC ‘church’ and the huge parking and traffic issues it will generate, will compound the challenges to the district the ZRG development (for part of Crystal Palace park) will produce.

“It is clear that 25 Church Road is now unsuited to any of the ‘community’ uses the KICC is proposing. “They have turned it into a church, plain and simple and a planning authority is unlikely to see their current ‘offer’ as  being either realistic or ameliorative.

“This was never was just about the good people of Crystal Palace having access to a commercial independent cinema, as nice as that would be.

“It was about increasing economic activity in the district and complementing its status as a cultural and artistic ‘hub’. “It was about increasing footfall along Church road, which is sorely in need of regeneration.

“The offer of occasional ‘family’ films, selected for us by pastor Dipo and shown on a makeshift screen in the upper circle of the auditorium, falls some way short of these aspirations. “It is insulting.

“This issue has generated a lot of heat and light over the years but from what I can see the Picture Palace Campaign has presented its arguments in an honest and dispassionate manner.

“In doing so, they have gained the respect of MP’s, council officers, councillors and the community. “If I’m frank, there are times when I wish they would be more gung ho.”

FONTGATE: … WITH MORE  CRITICISM OF KICC PLANS ON VIRTUAL NORWOOD,,,,

GipsyHill posted October 2nd

Why assume there is only to be about 1000 people at all KICC church events Crystal Palace?

At other KICC church special services, they have had multiple services a day.  That could mean 4000+ visitors across the day, with multiple shifts of congregation (and different vehicles) arriving across the day.

But this is not proposed only used as a church by KICC, it seem it could be used for KICC organised and hosted client events across the year for a range of special programmes and conferences and special events.

In the past, this included hiring the ExCel for a venue for 10,000 people for an international event over fivedays. As I understand it KICC Prayer City events in Maidstone is a facility that can house 15,000 on an event night.

Would it be convenient for KICC to have a new South London purpose fitted premium venue for their corporate events, conventions, trade shows, forums and concerts?  And maybe run more than one service /programme /show per day?

The impact locally to KICC-hosted client and international events may overwhelm Crystal Palace for local parking on other days of the week too.  If their operating model includes needing licenced events to 2am, then most train services do not exist at that time.

Wulfhound

They do know that our trains on Sunday are a pale shadow of the weekday service? Two trains an hour to and from Victoria (and for some reason they often use 4-car units, which are as a result overcrowded – a quarter the capacity of Saturdays with four 8-car trains per hour, but about 75 pc the number of passengers), two Overgrounds an hour (when it’s not closed for engineering work, which at present it mostly is), and sweet nothing to Tulse Hill / Dulwich / Peckham / London Bridge.

Am still concerned about the pavements though. On that side of Church Road they are very, very narrow in places. I can’t see how you get 1200 people in and out safely (whether they’re cinema-goers or church-goers) without significant pavement widening, and re-doing the crossings at the top of Anerley Hill to be able to cope with a lot more pedestrians.

We’re talking about potentially 600 ish people walking down Anerley Hill on a regular basis – that is obviously not practical with things as they are.

GipsyHill posted October 3rd

Has there been an independent assessment of the site’s lawful event capacity, now the site is being actively promoted as a multi-use venue including concerts?

Has this 25 Church Road Summary Response been qualified or updated: “If the site’s current lawful use is operated to its full capacity (which could be well in excess of the existing 1150 seating capacity as there is a plenty of standing area and/or to cater for 2/3000 people if all seats are removed) this would generate far higher levels of traffic and car parking demand than this proposal with a maximum 600 person restriction.”

Could that be up to 9,000 people per day if just three such events /services /shows /forums /conferences are performed, noting it is now ready as “venue that will suit the needs of any event.”?

KICC say the “six services a day” at their Hoe Street (Walthamstow) church are not a suitable comparison for their last proposal for 25CR. My observation is that it can happen, and KICC have allowed it as they understandably prioritised their needs with the resources they owned.

If not every week, then in extenuating circumstances, and special events multiple services /events per day are a common feature with KICC-organised client events and services. If we then “add on” other leisure uses KICC “want to retain” at 25 Church Road.

I can see why parking and impact locally is a significant issue, and may not realistically be addressed by a transport plan if this only addresses “when church services will be held”.

Norwood lad posted October 4th

This (survey) is merely a wishlist of what KICC wants to do with the building. Nothing you are proposing is of any use to the area and their is no option to object to a religious use to the building.

Its worth people taking two minutes to fill this in as the planning consultations will use the evidence of this survey to claim we all want the whats proposed. If enough people say no they can fudge or ignore it. If you not happy giving your name or address just leave it blank or use 25 Church rd as an address.

Martin Tempia

Chairman, Crystal Palace Park Community Stakeholder Group:

I would caution against any organisation basing any plans on an assumption that Crystal Palace park will continue to be available for use as a free car park.

One of the improvements to be funded under the recent £2 million GLA improvement award, will be a reduction in the amount of hard surfaces/tarmac in the Park. In short, there will be a dramatic reduction in the current level of car parking spaces available, with priority being given to users of the NSC.

We have to get away from thinking that the park is an ‘overspill’ facility for the wider district. It is a park, not a car park.

Jamesl – posted  October 7th

(On his and others discovery of the baptismal font): Unfortunately, one of the gentlemen who lifted the second hatch lost his grip (they are pretty heavy) and it slipped off its mounting and went crashing down into the pool with a massive clang !!!

Caused a bit of a commotion and we were all a bit embarrassed but , ultimately , it was a balance because I feel the info was important (and we did ask the consultants if we could inspect the stage after I asked, three times, for confirmation that the pool wasn’t there).

Trux

“There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.” —Proverbs 6:16–19

But try telling that to KICC.

Jamesl 

Fundamentally I believe the issue is relevant to the issue of trust and credibility in what KICC say – as summed up here

http://www.newsfromc…s-anger-misled/

http://www.newsfromc…ous-councillor/

For me I feel the discovery in 2014 of a large baptismal font (which may have been in situ since 2012 when rumours first  emerged) says a lot about KICC’s true intentions and I compare it, unfavourably, with what they reportedly said in June 2010 which was this:

ITALICS

Kingsway International Christian Centre (KICC) confirmed today in a statement it would not be challenging Bromley Council’s decision to refuse the change from D2 community use because it does not want to be seen as “fighting” the very community it wanted to serve…

KICC released a statement earlier today, on the deadline day for a decision on whether or not it would be appealing the planning decision made by Bromley Council on December 17 last year.

Its statement read: “Kingsway International Christian Centre (KICC) is now able to confirm it will not be lodging an appeal against the planning decision taken on December 17, 2009, regarding 25, Church Road, Crystal Palace.

“Contrary to recent press speculation, KICC’s planning consultants had advised that KICC stood a very good chance of lodging a successful appeal.However, KICC does not wish to be seen as “fighting” the very community that it wishes to serve.

“It was always in KICC’s plans for the building to have a large element of community use in any seven days (as anyone who has studied the original planning application can verify); the church is now considering a variety of building use options that will most benefit the whole community.”

The church said it would be releasing a fuller statement in due course in terms of its plans for the building, which it was still deciding, and would consult with the community over the plans.

A KICC spokesman said: “The use will be in line with its current community use as stipulated by D2 planning use.” He said KICC would look to use it as a cinema showing family films as well as offer it for use for amateur threatre groups to put on plays, and for concerts, including Christian music.

He remained tight-lipped over how extensively it would be used by KICC for its activities

http://www.yourlocal…__announcement/

That was four years ago and , until this weekend , there has been no meaningful consultation and very little clarity about KICC’s intentions

In the interim:

KICC have carried on re-modelling the building so it is very close replica to it Hoe Street Church (at which it has held six services per Sunday of up to 1000 per service).

We have also had  a number of KICC organised events at 25 Church Road, which Bromley have accepted may well have not been within the permitted D 2.

There have also been two Watchnight/similar events at News Year Eve (which previously have been so large that KICC held them in Fairfield Halls in Croydon).

The hosting of two Watchnight services was despite  KICC indicating that it had ‘no plans’ that these would take place at 25 Church Road when I and others met the KICC’s trustees in a two hour meeting, arranged via our MP’s, to discuss their plans, outline how unsettled people were with the lack of consultation (having publicly promised they would consult) and to explain the importance of the building in terms of its social and regenerative possibilities.

That was over two years ago (and it took them 18 months to even agree to a meeting, despite three constituency MP’s requesting one on numerous occasions) but again there was subsequently no publication of plans or meaningful consultation.

The open day two years ago is another example. It was hastily arranged and only after our MP’s wrote directly to the trustees (having had no response from the executive managements) to complain about the lack of consultation – which, by the way, as a charity they are obliged to do in accordance with Charity Commission written guidance.

KICC advertised for a business manager to promote 25 Church Road for D 2 use but – guess what – it was advertised on its website only and went to one of its congregation.

Which brings us to the here and now and the  introduction of a second attempt to introduce D1 which, in my eyes, seems to go back on the reported statement above of a use ‘in line’ with D2 (note conferences which they also advertising are also D1, not D2)

Ultimately if KICC are to convince with the latest plans, I  believe it requires convincing many that what they say can be trusted.

I for one do not trust the KICC and I sincerely believe that far from a low level of religious use (they currently  suggesting one service on a Sunday of 400 local congregants) what we may end up with is a south London version of their north west London Hoe Street church.

Tom_87 posted October 8th

James – I think you’ve touched on the key issue here. If the council are minded to permit this application how will they ensure the facility remains available to the community and isn’t just let to affiliates of KICC?

Whilst it may be possible to limit the number of days per week it can be used for D1 religious use via a planning condition it will be difficult to ensure it’s let to community groups for the remainder of the time.

wulfhound 

This is assuming that anyone in the community wants to hire a £500/hour venue in which alcohol is prohibited, paid ticketing is not allowed, and all profit goes to fund a militantly evangelical organisation with a declared aim of converting as many people as possible to its divisive, anti-science, overtly homophobic mindset.

To my mind that’s a “community venue” in name only.

JMS

Maybe the baptism pool/hot tub…. will make it attractive to a local swingers club? Perhaps they could offer to hire it?

charlie 

Planning conditions are difficult to enforce. Even the Planning Inspectorate recognises that. As for a community use agreement, I have serious doubts as to whether that could be successfully enforced either.

KICC are a church, their fundamental charitable object is the advancement of religion. Once they have the D1 planning use, the building will OFFICIALLY become a CHURCH ( it’s already being run as a church without the change of use!) and in line with their object, they will pursue as many activities as possible to deliver that object as they are required to do.

They are already laying down the  law as to what people can hire the building for and each and every request to hold an event at the venue will be vetted by the pastors to ensure it fits with their religious ethos.

We need to fight hard to save the D2 use of this ‘Asset of Community Value’ and then perhaps KICC will consider selling up so that they can invest the money in delivering their charitable activities from a  building which has the correct planning use i.e D1 of which there are many many being advertised for sale all the time.

Thanks to everyone who has completed the survey so far. Some very considered and thoughtful comments coming through but we do need more people to take part please and copy to your ward councillors, Bromley council planners and the Picture Palace Campaign.

charlie

KICC are lobbying their members and anyone who has signed up to their mailing list to take part in their survey. KICC are clearly worried as this was sent out on Tuesday just after the Picture Palace Campaign mailshot:

The Open Door Consultation needs your support

As many of you are aware we have recently completed our over £2million restoration of 25 Church Road in Crystal Palace.

In order to operate our church services at the venue, we are applying to the Council to ADD-ON worship to the current assembly and leisure use of the building.

We have looked at how the venue would best serve the community and have developed a vision for it not only being The Open Door Church but also a cultural hub for Crystal Palace.

The building was previously a rather neglected bingo hall and did not add much to the local neighbourhood.  Our vision is to bring a vibrancy back to Church Road.

We are now consulting the local community, if you live in the borough of Bromley or near Crystal Palace or expect to attend The Open Door services please let us know what you think of our plans.

We have established a have your say page on our website at www.theopendoor.org.uk the link is http://www.theopendoor.org.uk/survey/

I urge you to please take a moment to fill in one of these forms and ask that you spread the word to your friends and family particularly those living near Crystal Palace to do so also.

The closing date for having your say is this Friday.  I cannot emphasise enough how much local support would mean to the success of The Open Door.

If you have the time we would also ask you to write or email your local councillors and the Bromley council planning committee.  More details of their contact details will follow in the next week or two before we submit our application.

If you would like to make comments in the comment section of the form, we would love to hear what you think in your own words.  I have set out below some key points from our consultation work so far…
1.       This is a unique plan by The Open Door to create a cultural hub for Crystal Palace.
2.       We have created a Sustainable Travel Plan for our congregation and feel this would have less of a negative impact on parking than full cinema use.
3.       All of the people attending events at the building will be arriving on foot so we would expect this to benefit footfall for other Church Road businesses.
4.       The Open Door expect that 70 per cent of the timetable will be available for community use.
5.       We bought the building in 2009 on an open market, as far as we are aware, no other bidder could meet the costs of the purchase and the restoration work necessary.
6.       We have offered to host a cinema club as an example of the kind of events that could be held at The Open Door.

Once again, please ask everyone you know in Crystal Palace and Bromley to spread the word and fill in our feedback form.

Dipo Oluyomi
CEO KICC

It’s flattering that we are seen as such a threat to their ambitions but it raises the question of just how many KICC supporters this has gone out to.

It also raises the question as to why a MEGA MEGA rich church is so determined to make 25 Church Road their church and deprive the local community of the thing that so many people want which is a cinema.

If you haven’t had a chance to read the Campaign newsletter please please do and please take part in the on-line survey and cut and paste your comments to the campaign, your MP, ward councillors and London Assembly member plus Bromley planning.

KICC’s proposals for ‘Change of Use’ of 25 Church Road to a D1 ‘Place of Worship/Conference’ venue with D2 add-on

Norwood lad posted October 8th

Love the comment about the old bingo hall “But did not add much to the local neighbourhood “.

Its not as if the KICC did nothing but present a closed building to the world for over five years years and now want to change the use to use as OUR church which will add nothing to the area but nick the very limited parking spaces in the area struggling businesses on Church Rd rely on for weekend trade.

Good to know they are rattled and reading local media. Might want to hold back any suprises and not reveal any info here they will try to counter (big wave to those lurking).

jamesl posted October 8th

The other important point here is that the D1 use application is not just about religious worship. I understand that they also need D1 for to hold conferences as D1 includes

Schools, Colleges, Universities, other places of education,  Crèches, Day Nursery, Day Centre, Clinic, Health Centre,  Dental Surgery, Consulting Room, Art Gallery (other than for  sale or hire), Museum, Public Library, Reading Room, Church,  Mosque, Temple, Shrine, other places of worship or religious  instruction, Civic and Community Halls, Exhibition Halls,  Conference and Training Centres

KICC are advertising the building (which seats 1100) as a conference centre for hire at £500 per hour – that’s unlikely, I would have thought,  to be taken up by community groups.

But – lets say this takes off – surely a conference facility for 1100 people will mean traffic parking stress? In addition KICC itself hold conferences (very large ones) – what about the impact of those ?

Curiously the possibility of 1100 delegates arriving in the Triangle for a conference is not mentioned , either in their survey or in the ameliorative  letter sent to the Chamber of Commerce about parking, which paints all this as a small “add on” to existing use.

FONTGATE: ….AND ON FACEBOOK

Comments on the Picture Palace Campaign’s Facebook page include:

Chris Humphries: FFS Bromley it’s a b***** church!

Sue Allison: KICC clearly have friends in high places. Disgraceful.

Samina Yaqub: Absolutely disgraceful! What more evidence does the council need??

Beck Davies: (on the discovery of the font): OMG it was hidden under the stage? This is ridiculous!

Curtis Butler: No Integrity whatsoever!!. I guess the first commandment at KICC is to lie!

Liz Goode: They should be forced out of the building. Maybe they do have friends in high places Bromley Council should be ashamed of stripping our community from something we would love.

Dustan Steer: This cinema is going to have the best Rocky Horror sing-a-long nights

Kat Campbell: I think I’m missing something. It’s obviously a church, as it’s been taken over by KICC. What else would they want to use it for?

Clare Johnson: I am a little with Kat here. Although I would much prefer that the building were used as a cinema …it currently belongs to a religious organisation (they won the lease) and is therefore likely to be used for religious purposes.

Is the Picture Palace Campaign (return a cinema to Crystal Palace) fighting for the KICC to relinquish their lease of the building? Is this a possibility? If so, which body is in line to take it on as a cinema? Is there a business backing the campaign which is interested in taking on the lease, e.g. City Screen?

I worry that this is as much about being against evangelical Christian communities as it is about regaining the cinema. After all, if there was such a desire for the building to be restored to its proper use, why wasn’t the campaign in full swing before the bid was won by the church?
(Editor’s note: Cinema building was sold in a secret deal. Picture Palace Campaign formed after it was publicly announced a church had acquired the building.)

Clare Johnson This article perhaps exposes my ignorance and naivety:http://www.newsfromcrystalpalace.co.uk/opposition-church…/
OPPOSITION TO CHURCH PLANS ‘NOT ANTI-RELIGIOUS’ – COUNCILLOR – News…
NEWSFROMCRYSTALPALACE.CO.UK
(Clare – Welcome to News From Crystal Palace! – Editor)

Hywel Morgan: Thanks for sharing that, Claire. It really helps to contextualise the situation. I believe that the Picturehouse chain were, (and still are) interested in taking over the building but until the council finally call time on KICC’s attempts to officially change the use of the Cinema to a place of worship, it seems nothing can be done.

It’s the underhand, disingenuous manner in which KICC have acted that angers me.

Curtis Butler: In a way I am glad that usage has been attached to this building, otherwise there would be no way of stopping this?! This building MUST be put back in use for the LOCAL community! Bromley council should sue them for improper use!

BAPTISMAL FONT UNCOVERED AT ‘OPEN DAY’ IN CINEMA BUILDING – Councillors anger at being ‘misled’

VISITORS TO an open day organised by the Pentecostal church which owns the former cinema building at 25 Church Road found something they didn’t expect – a baptismal font.

The font has long been rumoured to have been installed despite repeated denials by the church – Kingsway International Christian Centre – that it hadn’t.

A local resident who uncovered the existence of the font said: “One of the big, big, issues over the last five years is about just how much trust can be put in what KICC says.

“Some months ago KICC submitted a – swiftly withdrawn – application for a public entertainment premises license for 25 Church Road. “The application included plans for the basement and stage, both of which had marked on them a large, covered area called ‘baptismal font’.

“I was intrigued by this because KICC’s other converted cinema in Hoe Street, Walthamstow has one of these built into the stage which is confirmed in photographs on the architects’ website.

“Given the mention of a font being built into the stage in the plans for 25 Church Road I asked the planning consultants during the open day whether they knew anything about this.

“They told me that they had already been asked this and that, as far as they knew, there wasn’t one.

“When I pressed them about why it appeared on ‘as built’ plans submitted with the licencing application to Bromley council they told me that they had been assured by KICC that this was an error. “The plans were ‘aspirational’ for the future and not indicative of the actual position.

“I asked them again whether they could categorically confirm there was no font. “They said they could, based on what they had been told.

“I then asked if I could have a look for myself, to which they agreed.

“This is what I found. “On the stage were a line of large hatches  “I decided to lift one and, bless me , what do I find but what is very clearly a large, tiled swimming pool like structure, complete with steps down, mosaic tiles and round underwater swimming pool light.

“It’s fair to say the planning consultants were mortified to the point of being speechless and I challenged them about how on earth residents could trust KICC and its plans when KICC’s own planning consultants had no idea what was actually in the building and had been given incorrect information.

“This made my blood boil. “KICC’s consultants were clearly embarrassed when we uncovered it.

“More importantly KICC have clearly installed the font for religious services long before  the planned mixed use planning application to include D1 religious worship.

“It leads me to question what else is inside the building which is yet to be revealed and whether building a font before D1 use is granted is a breach of planning permission.  “I’ve written to Bromleys planners today to demand they investigate.”

COUNCILLORS ANGER AT BEING ‘MISLED’

THE DISCOVERY of the font does not inspire trust in KICC as an organisation said Crystal Palace ward councillors Angela Wilkins and Richard Williams in a joint statement to News From Crystal Palace.

The councillors – who were both present when the pool was uncovered –  said: “We were both keen to hear KICC’s proposals for using their property for community use and would have liked to believe they are sincere.

“But this discovery of something they had  repeatedly denied the existence of does not inspire trust in them as an organisation. “We are also sceptical that the rates they are proposing to charge for hire of rooms would be affordable to local groups.

“Cllr Angela Wilkins emailed Bromley planning officers on Sunday with the following questions and has been promised  a reply within the next day or two.

•  Are your officers aware that this baptism pool exists?
•  Does this baptism pool require any permissions which are not in place?
•  Can we not deduce from the presence of such a facility that the building is already being used for religious services, in contravention of existing permissions

Cllr Richard Williams commented: ” I am really disappointed that I and the local community have been misled in this way: it brings the integrity of KICC into question.”

UPDATE: COUNCIL OFFICERS KNEW POOL WAS THERE

BROMLEY COUNCIL OFFICERS knew the pool was there. In an email to a complainant,  John Stephenson, acting planning investigation, development control manager, said: “The Council have been aware of the internal alterations  which have been previously investigated by my enforcement team at the above address , these changes (internally) which includes the pool beneath the main stage do not require planning permission and as such are not a breach of planning control.

“This information was previously supplied to council by KICC when a licence application with plans attached was submitted to the council and later withdrawn.  “I  can confirm that at this stage no evidence of the use of the building for religious services has been established  which would be considered to be in contravention of the permitted use of the building.

“The council values the participation of the public in the planning and planning enforcement process. “Although no breach of planning control has taken place in this instance, I would nevertheless, like to thank you for drawing the matter to my attention. ”

OPPOSITION TO CHURCH PLANS ‘NOT ANTI-RELIGIOUS’ – COUNCILLOR

Plans to use 25 Church Road as a church are not being objected to on anti-religious grounds – and those that proclaim this to be the case are prepared to use ‘scare tactics’ and are exceptionally irresponsible.

That is the message from veteran Upper Norwood Cllr Pat Ryan (Lab) in response to comments on Twitter by Croydon council’s cabinet member for leisure and sport Cllr Timothy Godfrey.

Cllr Ryan’s comments follow a constituent’s response to Cllr Godfrey’s comments and which he was sent a copy of. The constituent said Cllr Godfrey’s comments “shows a worrying lack of knowledge of the history of this sorry saga or of the behaviour of the KICC.”

But Croydon Cllr Ryan says plans to use the building at 25 Church Road as a church are not being objected to on anti religious grounds – “and those that proclaim this to be the case are prepared to use ‘scare tactics’ and are exceptionally irresponsible.

“There are a host of churches in Upper Norwood, of all deferent religious persuasions, and there has never been any conflict between them and the local communities, indeed they are all very supportive of each other.”

Cllr Godfrey’s original Tweet just says: “Very impressed with the work this church has done to refurbish this old Cinema / Bingo Hall. Open for bookings”

He has responded to a variety of comments by Tweeting: “The building was available for sale and no cinema came close to buying it.” (Editor’s note: The building was sold by Gala bingo in a secret deal and KICC outbid a cinema chain for it.) “A cinema could operate most days.” “Realistically a cinema operator would have knocked the building down to put in the six screens;

“Why doesn’t the cinema campaign rent the 1,100 seat auditorium for cinema starting once a week?” and “They probably don’t need change of use if the church is ancillary to its main use.”

Replies from cinema campaigners and supporters have included: “This church does not have planning permission for change of use. In 2009 3,500 local residents, 120 local business and 7,000 peitioners, 3 local MPs etc. etc. opposed change of use” and:

“Have a chat with your South and Upper Norwood ward councillors. 25 Church Road the only D2 building in Crystal Palace.”

CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND NORWOOD SOCIETY OPPOSE NEW CHURCH PLANS – KICC response